Torque converter

ircwet

New member
Well I hate to experiment, but I am in need of a TC. Everything works fine with mine, except the vibration I have between 3 and 4 at 40 mph. This is were things vibrate and rattle, (possible chatter) but either have to down shift or speed up. Black Night can possible chime in on the rattle ? Was going to go for drop suspension, but I think this is more important.
 

Tooky

Serious about performance
Re: Torque converter

Is it possible your transmission is going into 4th gear too early with the converter clutch locked up? That's what happened on mine. It'll definitely "buzz" if you get into 4th (high load) with only 1100 RPM or so. What's you RPM when this happens?

What if you leave the shifter in "D" (3rd) and drive to 50 MPH. Does the buzz disappear?

Do you get the vibration if you start the truck ice cold and get it up to 50MPH within the first 2 minutes? (the TCC is not engaged on most chips until the engine coolant temps reach 150*F) All these things would trace to my theory.
 

ircwet

New member
Re: Torque converter

I do believe its going into lockup to soon. If I drop into D it goes away, and also if I hit the brake. When I hit the break it unlocks and drops from OD to D >? . And also it seems not to do when it's cold.
Solution ? and it does has some ODD BALL chip in it that no one can identify. I suppose I can try a stock chip.
 

jimmyz79

Re-Member
Re: Torque converter

Same here - Rattles when it goes in and out of lock up at 40mph, only when its hot. I did a fluid change with lubeguard & some mix of Type F & Dex with no difference. I have a stock chip, so thats not the problem.

Thinking its the TC...

George Blake, do you have any thoughts on this?
 
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Black Knight

I Glow Therefore I am
Re: Torque converter

It was weird, never felt anything like it. It would never do it in D no matter how long we hung around that speed. As soon as we put it in OD and were aroung 40ish it shook like crazy and either you speed up a little to 50mph and it went away or you tapped the brakes.

I didn't pay attention to the RPM's, but I would guess it's a lock/unlocked thing because just tapping the brakes and raisng the RPM a little even at the same speed it all went away. :dunno:
 

George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Torque converter

Any time you are at a steady speed over 32 MPH, the TCC will try to lock. As soon as you hit 2nd gear, the TCC passage is pressurized with oil and the TCC solenoid can now block flow and lock up the converter clutch whenever it's energized by the ecm. Your brake pedal can break this circuit. That's why you can "tap" the brake and the TCC unlocks and the rpms go up 200 to 300 rpm.
Tooky is right. It's a load issue. What's happening is the clutch in the converter is wearing out. When you are in 3rd, your RPMs are higher, your overruns are locked in and the line pressure is boosted slightly. This compensated for the worn out converter clutch.

When you go into 4th, the 4th servo pushes on the band and grabs the reverse drum which slams the sun gear shell, the rear sun gear and slams them stopped. The overruns release so the sprag can go into "overrun" condition. Pressure is reduced. The shift accumulator valve gets hit(this is the valve that determines shift feel) and it pulses the NC switch and opens it temporarily. This unlocks the converter for just a second so you don't put such a large strain on the engine and trans so the converter can absorb some of this energy as a cushion. Then it's time for clutch to reengage. This is when you guys are gettig the chattering.

You can get by for a little longer possibly if you have a .470" TV boost valve. This means you can go up to .500" TV boost valve. This will boost pressure. While you have this boost valve out, modify the PR valve so you get lube at Lockup. There's instructions all over how to do this. Normally this is only necessary in the syclones. The Typhoons tend to already have the PR valve update as done by GM in 1992.

So two options. Try the boost valve with lubegard and type F fluid.
If this don't work, it's time to replace the converter and freshen up the trans(new clutches).

Oh, BTW, if you are going 40 and you are in OD, this means your TV cable is set too soft or worn out. Minimum OD is 44 mph is stock 700 syty setup. This means your pressures are a little lower than they should be compounding the problem.

I was done but thought I would add a little more so it makes sense.
Imagine you are in a steady state. Cruising along at 35 MPH in 3rd with the TCC locked. You start to go up a hill. You are not pressing harder on the pedal. The weight of the vehicle loads up on the engine through the trans as gravity tries to push you backward. The load on the engine increases but your trans pressure is staying the same. The TCC clutch is now taking a pounding (you feel this as a chatter as it slips) and ECM cuts off the internal ecm ground and makes the TCC clutch unlock. Ground level off. Road speed comes back up to about 33 or 34 MPH and it's time to relock. ECM regrounds the TCC solenoid and lockup is commanded. Your worn clutch is trying but you get a "chatter".
That's a little of GM TCC logic.
 
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hatrik8

Donating Member
Re: Torque converter

I totally have this problem! When I had my trans rebuilt they told me that my TC was in good shape. Guess I'll put that on my to do list.
 

caci

Member
Re: Torque converter

George,

Motor's out, trans is hanging down. Probably a good time to upgrade to .500 Boost Valve - right?
Can I get one from you?


BTW, I know I'll eventually need a 4L80E...

Thanks,

Chris
 

Tooky

Serious about performance
Re: Torque converter

In my case, it did the same thing everyone appears to be describing, but my TC turned out to be fine. It is just the fact that my transmission is shifting into 4th gear too soon (35-40 instead of 45mph like a stocker, and yes 5mph makes all the difference). The reason for my tranny in particular, is an unfortunate side effect of what it took to get 4400-4600 RPM WOT shift points with a 2700 stall converter. It's pretty much the one tradeoff in my transmission calibration that I couldn't eliminate. So what I do, is drive around in D all the time until I am going on a highway or some place I'll be going faster than 50MPH and I click it into OD. Not too big of a deal just minorly annoying when I let other people drive the truck.

But my TC definitely is fine. It's just that you can't get into 4th too early or it'll bring the motor down too low in RPM and make it buck. Bad calibration of the transmission causes this. IMO any time a single component of the transmission (like the torque converter) is changed, the entire transmission really needs to be recalibrated if your goal is 100% stock driveability like the factory would ship. Not many shops are going to go through this trouble for you, though. I tuned everything I could and just deal with the 1 issue I couldn't fix.
 

George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Torque converter

It's gonna be different for everbody. Unfortunately, when a truck has 70K miles on it, it's the torque converter giving out.

No reputable transmission shop will rebuild a trans and then put the original torque converter on it. Ruining $1000's worth of equipment and labor over a $200 converter is just rediculous.

I would definitely do the boost valve. You can do it while it's in the truck as well. The trans does NOT need to be dropped to do this.

There are two gaskets I recommend. Either do the cork. Put it on dry. Or the fiber gasket like comes in the Superior kits. Do NOT use the rubber ones. They are JUNK. I wish they had a pan gasket like is used on the 80e's. Of course, it shows the duty of the 80e when they come with a reusable metal reinforced pan gasket AND a built in drain plug AND fluid temperature sensorl.
TookyCat said:
In my case, it did the same thing everyone appears to be describing, but my TC turned out to be fine. It is just the fact that my transmission is shifting into 4th gear too soon (35-40 instead of 45mph like a stocker, and yes 5mph makes all the difference). The reason for my tranny in particular, is an unfortunate side effect of what it took to get 4400-4600 RPM WOT shift points with a 2700 stall converter. It's pretty much the one tradeoff in my transmission calibration that I couldn't eliminate. So what I do, is drive around in D all the time until I am going on a highway or some place I'll be going faster than 50MPH and I click it into OD. Not too big of a deal just minorly annoying when I let other people drive the truck.

But my TC definitely is fine. It's just that you can't get into 4th too early or it'll bring the motor down too low in RPM and make it buck. Bad calibration of the transmission causes this. IMO any time a single component of the transmission (like the torque converter) is changed, the entire transmission really needs to be recalibrated if your goal is 100% stock driveability like the factory would ship. Not many shops are going to go through this trouble for you, though. I tuned everything I could and just deal with the 1 issue I couldn't fix.
 

George Blake

DONATING MEMBER
Re: Torque converter

Yeah. $20 for the boost valve plus a little for shipping. I'll send pics on how to do the valve also. You need a new converter? I do stockers for $200 and stock plus (2300-2500 stall) for $250 plus shipping.

caci said:
George,

Motor's out, trans is hanging down. Probably a good time to upgrade to .500 Boost Valve - right?
Can I get one from you?


BTW, I know I'll eventually need a 4L80E...

Thanks,

Chris
 

caci

Member
Re: Torque converter

Already have a 2800. Can you please PM payment infor for the valve.

Thanks,
Chris
 

ircwet

New member
Re: Torque converter

So from what I am gathering, #1 adjust the tv cable so OD hits at 45...I think it wants to shift about 42...Then is there a way to tell what boost valve ? if .47 then send out to be modded to .5.....if chatter replace T/C....
 

jimmyz79

Re-Member
Re: Torque converter

Hey guys,

Just a follow up, had a TC put in (#3 for me) with a hot flush, guy said whatever was in there was some brand he had never seen. Its very smooth, no shakes, rattlles at all , goes in and out of lockup perfectly, so I would have to say to all with this problem, to get a new TC...
Ok.gif


Matt
 
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