Western Washington help request.

odium

1BADGMC
I'm going to write a book as a reply here, so if anybody has these problems they can see what I did to solve them.

I just spent the last three hours tuning it to run ~ 15.5-16 psi and it only gets .5 knock retard on the 2-3 shift consistently. I'm so happy I finally got her running right... I can finally start modifying some stuff.

Alright, the important part: How was it done and fixed?

Get datamaster and a laptop somehow. You can buy it or borrow it. You will need it. This is a must. All spark retard, knock, tuning, etc. was done with this tool. Check it out at http://www.ttspowersystems.com

When I got this truck, I was getting massive knock retard at WOT, so I bought a bunch of the typical tuneup stuff and installed it. ATR wires (suck by the way b/c the crimps keep breaking and I have to constantly recrimp them), Conrad cap and rotor, NGK UR5 plugs, AFPR, vacuum lines, and boost, electronic fuel pressure, and transmission temperature gauges. I then timed it to 0 with the tan wire disconnected.

While I was doing this, I redid my vacuum lines with a silicon hose kit that I found at some hole in the wall aftermarket parts store in Spokane. All vacuum lines were replaced up until the heater controls and vacuum ball on the vacuum circuit found here: http://www.sicid.com/vacuum_diagram.jpg (I changed the cruise control line). The reason I didn't replace every vacuum line was because the stupid kit was made for a Honda Civic or equivalent, so there wasn't enough vacuum line to do it all. If somebody on the board is selling a kit, buy it, unless you live in Seattle, Portland, Chicago, some kind of big city that would carry it. I live in the middle of nowhere, so I was sort of out of luck... Anyway, the most important vacuum lines to replace are the plenum to AFPR and Map sensor, and even more importantly, THE TURBO SOLENOID AND WASTEGATE VACUUM LINES. Replace these if you are having strange boost issues. I was getting knock from boost spikes caused by a vacuum leak here, I'm pretty damned sure. I was getting 17-20 psi in datamaster before the vacuum line replacement, and even though it isn't very accurate over 14 psi since my ATR Pitbull is a 2-bar chip, my boost gauge was agreeing. This is where some of my knock issues were coming from.

I also deleted the EGR from the vacuum circuit, and I haven't gotten a code yet. If I do, all I have to do is pull the ECM B fuse for 30 seconds and all will be well again. This reduced my intake temperatures by almost 30 degrees F. I'm assuming this also helped my detonation problem.

Alright, so all the problems should be gone now right? Wrong. I was getting massive knock under any boost at all. Why?

The main thing that was causing my knock: Timing. My timing chain has slipped a tooth or two, as my TDC is at about 15-20 degrees retarded from where the 0 mark is. I found my TDC with a screwdriver and a wrench on the harmonic balancer bolt. First, I had somebody blip the starter until I felt exhaust come out of the #1 spark plug hole. At the beginning of the exhaust stroke, I manually wrenched the piston up, tapped it with a screwdriver, marked the harmonic balancer with a line of whiteout, took the screw driver out, wrenched the motor over, put the screw driver back in, wrenched the motor the opposite way, and marked when it hit the screw driver again. In between these two marks is TDC. It turns out that when I had timed it before, it was actually almost 15 degrees advanced. Very bad. Lots of knock.

When I figured that out, I set it for true TDC and I had no spark retard and absolutely no knock at WOT any more, but I had a new problem: The boost was stuck at 13 psi for some reason. If it had been 10, I would have known that I was in "limp home mode" or that the boost control solenoid was disconnected or something was going on with it, but it was 13, an odd number.

Apparently an ATR Pitbull chip runs in open loop mode and depends only on TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) input to control the wastegate. From advice from the board, they said to check the wastegate rod, and I did. I set it according to this diagram: http://boostvalve.com/tech/wg-preload.html. This didn't help me. I was still stuck at 13.5 psi or so. Well, I played with the rod adjustment a little bit, but was scared to twist it in too much. I could not get more boost for some reason, so I eventually got frustrated and just twisted the rod super-short. There are probably 8 threads left on the rod right now, but after I did it, I got 15-16 psi. Problem fixed: Don't be worried and twist the arm in for more boost if you have an ATR Pitbull. Twist it out for less.

If you don't have an ATR Pitbull, set the wastegate arm how the diagram explains.

I spent about 2 and a half hours fine-tuning the timing and wastegate arm by trial and error. I did the arm first, giving me ~16 psi, and I then loosened the timing bolt and changed timing until any spark retard was pretty much gone. I set my base fuel pressure at 50 psi, just to make sure enough fuel is getting in. I ended up being about 1 degree advanced with my wastegate rod showing about 8 threads left to get my perfect setup. It WILL be different for you.

Just a note, if you have an ATR pitbull, it is not recommended to tune over 14.7 psi. The 2-bar chip can only read up to 14.7 psi, and does not compensate enough fueling for any more boost than that. If you have an ATR Pitbull, I strongly suggest getting an Ultimate or dig 4-way chip or some other 3-bar chip with a 3-bar map sensor if you plan on running over 14.7 psi of boost. I am looking in to an aftermarket chip right now, and realistically, I should have tuned my truck for 14 psi, but it runs too damned good right now to change. Besides, I don't run the truck w/o datamaster, so problems are usually seen before bad things happen.

Quick summary: When you get a new Ty, do a basic tuneup no matter what condition it is in. Mine was pristine, but I still had to do the following: New plugs (NGK UR5), new wires (I used ATR Black Beauts, but I hate them and would go Taylor next time), cap and rotor (conrad), an AFPR, fuel pump if you don't have it, boost, trans temp (weak link on tys), and fuel pressure gauge whether it be mechanical in the engine bay or electric in the cab, and vacuum lines. Do not forget the vacuum lines near the turbo/wastegate. There are two links you need to replace. Time the beast using the TDC method described above. Get datamaster somehow and learn to use it wisely.

EDIT: It is still getting 8-9 degrees of knock retard, starting at 8 psi and ramping up from there. When the distributer is retarded, I get no knock (obviously), but it runs like a slug and takes forever to get any boost since it's retarded so much.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Kewl.... always liked a story with a happy ending.

FYI..... the outer ring on the dampner probably moved rather than the timing chain slipping teeth. You should paint a straight line across both sections so that you will know easily if it moves in the future.

I B happy for you dude.
 

odium

1BADGMC
Well, all the problems have been back for a while now, exactly as they were before.

Apparently my harmonic balancer slipped about 5-10 degrees and that is why I was having problems building boost before. I've been messing around with this trying to get the knock to go away for 2-3 months now and I've tried almost everything short of replacing the engine and damper.

I think I said it ran like a raped gorrilla because I forgot what it felt like to run at all...

I've been having an impossible time with my truck for 3 months now. It has been having massive knock retard and I have no idea why. I've tried everything and I just keep doing the same things over and over and over again wasting my time. I need help!

So far I've done everything in the threads about getting rid of knocking. Recent tuneup, all top of the line plugs, wires, cap, rotor, etc., top end cleaner, vacuum tested, extra fuel pressure, all for nothing. About the only thing I can think of is that the Pitbull chip might just be a piece of junk, but I've read that others have had success with it. I don't know why it wants to be a bitch and knock, but I get 8-9 degrees of retard at about 50% throttle and 8 psi.

I've exhausted just about every possible thing I can do and I need to get in touch with somebody in real life that knows these trucks, not just internet help. I haven't had a truck that runs right for almost 3 months now, and I've been putting an unhealthy amount of time in the truck trying to fix it, only to get nowhere.

I am free all next weekend and I'm willing to travel the 6-8 hours from Pullman, WA to get a lot of help.

I need help badly,
Ben
 
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