Sy / Ty Combinations

[smeagol]

I was bored today, so I created an Excel document that gave some basic guidelines for parts selection in a combination for making a SyTy fast.

Click here to see the document

Please feel free to post questions/concerns/thoughts here.

The boundaries for these parts are not clear cut, and there will be crossovers and exceptions. The idea here is to be able to use this page as a guideline. You could draw a vertical line down the page to help you select parts to use in your truck.

Also, the weight of the truck, the level of boost run at, the elevation all play a part in the selection process.

I will be adding to this document, modifying as necessary. I like the Excel layout, as it is easy to view it, as well as to make changes.

 

[MikeRenz]

thats the best use of being bored i've ever seen. Thanks for laying out.....hopefully everyone else can add input on other 'wrong combos' and parts they've tried

 

[Bill Z]

Sy / Ty Combinations

Brian,

This LOOKS great!!! And it clears up some of my confusion.

As you know, I have been looking into chips. Maybe you could indicate some of the chip options in your Excel document.

I have been told that with higher boosts different spark plugs are required. If this is true, you could include spark plugs and maybe aftermarket ignitions.

Maybe you should mention the reccomended fuel octaine for higher boosts.

I would be interested.

Thanks for your work.

 

[JSM]

AWESOME DATA!!!

That is much needed. Convert that to HTML and host it. I am sure we can add to it as time goes.

 

[smeagol]

Hmm, I have a better idea.

Those are some good ideas, what I'll do is split up the worksheets, or just create additional ones.

Spark plugs would be a good one.

Aftermarket ignitions i'm not so sure about. I know I've done 126mph without one. I think recommendations for ignition modules etc will be hit or miss, with very few people swearing by a certain part. I've used MSD CDI's, and burned out one or two.

Chips / aftermarket computers - You can go 10s on stock computer, you can go 14s on a FAST or Motec. Hard to place that in a category like I've done in the spreadsheet.

 

[Lynn D. Brown]

SyTy Formulae

SyTy Formulae

Outstanding Sh*t, BG !

I'm about to go w the 75 #er's w a PTE-63 - Sound OK ? PTE has a great price on them slightly < $400. As far as the pump, I just installed a W340 and put in an extra suction line while I was at it - such a PITA to get the Ty tank down.

What do U think of adding an external pump in parallel and having it cut in at say ~ 10 # Boost ?

R U going to put Control systems on there, like how your Ultimate fits in ? Could I get a copy of the actual .xls spreadsheet so I can play w it ?

 

[smeagol]

I used the 75# injectors with my 63 series turbo on my first Syclone, ran 11.0s, best mph of 126. Should work fine, provided the rest of the build is well thought out.

As far as pumps go, it depends on what your goals are.

I won't use an intank pump for past mid 11s. Beyond that, you'll run into many personal opinions of what to run.

Once you get serious, I wouldn't recommend anything but an external pump in a sumped configuration. With that said, there are Buicks running dual intank Walbro pumps to very fast levels, should support 800-900hp, depending on which pumps were used. I just don't like that setup, for several reasons - a)2 pumps, twice the odds of failure b) when there is a pump failure, you won't know it until you are leaning out at WOT, and possibly blowing a motor c)with a hard launching vehicle, you may still experience starvation in an intank setup.

A pump I will probably run when I start my 10 second assault on the new truck is the Bosch one on this page: http://www.ls1speed.com/catagory.cfm?catagory=fuel
Along with a sumped fuel cell, that is.

I am updating the combinations page, and it will have a spark plug page. I probably won't include a controls page, as there is much variation, and personal preference, and qualitative tuning issues present there. You could go 9s on the stock computer, or run 15s on an aftermarket computer. I want to keep these pages used for reference, for factual info. With computer controls, there are many options. Meaning if I do a certain buildup, and then run 5 different computers on it, as long as I have the same AFR & timing in each computer for the same running conditions, the engine should make the same power.

I may have a webpage with computer control details for different combos, but that's probably later.

FWIW, I'd rather not put this page in html; it's easier to view the data with the locked row, and adding worksheets will be easily done.

To save it locally, just open it, and file -> save as..

 

[Lynn D. Brown]

Thanx, Brian.

As far as running 9's on the stock computer ?? Don't know if U were kidding, but U would certainly at least have to mod the drivers to Lo Imp, right ? Then U would probably have to cut a few Zillion chips to get it right.

The reason I ask is that I will be facing whether I have to go FAST of DFI in the next month or 2 and I haven't plinked the $$ down yet. I have a reasonably stout build, and don't know if there is any chance that an Ultimate/Stock ECM isystem would be feasible. Of course, by the time I buy everything needed there, maybe I'm not so far from the ~$1500. for an Aftermarket ECM.

 

[smeagol]

We've been-there-done-that already. Tony's truck ran 10s with modded drivers & 75s. I've ran low imp. 55s in the past on stock computer. Few other trucks are running around with 75s and 83s on stock computer. These programs are becoming more mature as we go along.

Yes burning chips is part of the game for sure. Once you get dialed in fairly well, you don't need to do too many, or you can have multiple chips on hand, or in a multichip configuration to select from.

If you are interested in doing such a system, contact Nolan. He has some stipulations if you are set on having him work with you. If you'd like the ability for someone to tune it local, on a dyno, and so forth.. the aftermarket computers, like FAST/DFI are the way to go.

Oh and as far as 9s on the stock computer... there's no reason it can't be done. Buicks have gone 8s on their stock computer, and it's a POS in comparison. Limited by MAF flow, limited by datalogging speed.

Syty's stock computer handles a 3 bar map, has great datalogging software out there, as well as ability to datalog wideband 02 data high speed, you have the ability to swap between programs quickly (with push of a button), boost control if you so desire, torque converter controls, accurate knock retard controls. It has a *lot* to offer. You are aware of what the aftermarket computers have to offer, so you know their benefits.

 

[Sy769]

We've been-there-done-that already. Tony's truck ran 10s with modded drivers & 75s. I've ran low imp. 55s in the past on stock computer. Few other trucks are running around with 75s and 83s on stock computer. These programs are becoming more mature as we go along.

Yes burning chips is part of the game for sure. Once you get dialed in fairly well, you don't need to do too many, or you can have multiple chips on hand, or in a multichip configuration to select from.

If you are interested in doing such a system, contact Nolan. He has some stipulations if you are set on having him work with you. If you'd like the ability for someone to tune it local, on a dyno, and so forth.. the aftermarket computers, like FAST/DFI are the way to go.

Oh and as far as 9s on the stock computer... there's no reason it can't be done. Buicks have gone 8s on their stock computer, and it's a POS in comparison. Limited by MAF flow, limited by datalogging speed.

Syty's stock computer handles a 3 bar map, has great datalogging software out there, as well as ability to datalog wideband 02 data high speed, you have the ability to swap between programs quickly (with push of a button), boost control if you so desire, torque converter controls, accurate knock retard controls. It has a *lot* to offer. You are aware of what the aftermarket computers have to offer, so you know their benefits.

YYAAAYY for the stock computer. One of the few things that doesn't need to be ripped out and junked.

This will be a decent guide for us to point the newbs to. Thanks. Your idle time is more productive than when I am working hard.


Speaking of idle time where the hell are those Ultimate Cals.???? :wink:

 

[smeagol]

We've been-there-done-that already. Tony's truck ran 10s with modded drivers & 75s. I've ran low imp. 55s in the past on stock computer. Few other trucks are running around with 75s and 83s on stock computer. These programs are becoming more mature as we go along.

Yes burning chips is part of the game for sure. Once you get dialed in fairly well, you don't need to do too many, or you can have multiple chips on hand, or in a multichip configuration to select from.

If you are interested in doing such a system, contact Nolan. He has some stipulations if you are set on having him work with you. If you'd like the ability for someone to tune it local, on a dyno, and so forth.. the aftermarket computers, like FAST/DFI are the way to go.

Oh and as far as 9s on the stock computer... there's no reason it can't be done. Buicks have gone 8s on their stock computer, and it's a POS in comparison. Limited by MAF flow, limited by datalogging speed.

Syty's stock computer handles a 3 bar map, has great datalogging software out there, as well as ability to datalog wideband 02 data high speed, you have the ability to swap between programs quickly (with push of a button), boost control if you so desire, torque converter controls, accurate knock retard controls. It has a *lot* to offer. You are aware of what the aftermarket computers have to offer, so you know their benefits.

YYAAAYY for the stock computer. One of the few things that doesn't need to be ripped out and junked.

This will be a decent guide for us to point the newbs to. Thanks. Your idle time is more productive than when I am working hard.


Speaking of idle time where the hell are those Ultimate Cals.???? :wink:

SONOVA ... check yer email... sorry... lost it in my pile of stuff

 

[Tommyquest]

I used the 75# injectors with my 63 series turbo on my first Syclone, ran 11.0s, best mph of 126. Should work fine, provided the rest of the build is well thought out.

As far as pumps go, it depends on what your goals are.

I won't use an intank pump for past mid 11s. Beyond that, you'll run into many personal opinions of what to run.

Once you get serious, I wouldn't recommend anything but an external pump in a sumped configuration. With that said, there are Buicks running dual intank Walbro pumps to very fast levels, should support 800-900hp, depending on which pumps were used. I just don't like that setup, for several reasons - a)2 pumps, twice the odds of failure b) when there is a pump failure, you won't know it until you are leaning out at WOT, and possibly blowing a motor c)with a hard launching vehicle, you may still experience starvation in an intank setup.

A pump I will probably run when I start my 10 second assault on the new truck is the Bosch one on this page: http://www.ls1speed.com/catagory.cfm?catagory=fuel
Along with a sumped fuel cell, that is.

I am updating the combinations page, and it will have a spark plug page. I probably won't include a controls page, as there is much variation, and personal preference, and qualitative tuning issues present there. You could go 9s on the stock computer, or run 15s on an aftermarket computer. I want to keep these pages used for reference, for factual info. With computer controls, there are many options. Meaning if I do a certain buildup, and then run 5 different computers on it, as long as I have the same AFR & timing in each computer for the same running conditions, the engine should make the same power.

I may have a webpage with computer control details for different combos, but that's probably later.

FWIW, I'd rather not put this page in html; it's easier to view the data with the locked row, and adding worksheets will be easily done.

To save it locally, just open it, and file -> save as..

Brian that link comes up blank without a vehicle chosen. You are refering to the Bosch 420?

 

[smeagol]

Yep. Sorry about the bad link.

 

[GM TURBO]

Ahh - gone from intense helpful BG to apologetic BG in a matter of 5 short months.

 

[smeagol]

[insert random violent threat here]

:wink:

 

[GM TURBO]

Just wait till tomorrow......

......and we can talk about [insert random SyTy combinations]

 

[Vaders Sy]

Are intercooler setups to varied as well to be included?

 

[Tooky]

I can't answer that but I can tell you Denny Raab went 11.00 @ 128 with stock intercooler and one of McCoys customers on his website ran mid 10s with what appears to also be the stock intercooler. Not to mention the handful of stock motor trucks running high 11s at 112-114 on the stock IC.

 

[djwaggoner]

12's on stock driveline

12's on stock driveline

Do you have any great secrets you are willing to share re your tuning?
Boost? AFR? MAT? Injecting methanol/ethanol? Etc...

Is this a feat that is feasible for "the rest-of-us" ?

8)

thanx, djw

 

[Tooky]

Re: 12's on stock driveline

Re: 12's on stock driveline

Do you have any great secrets you are willing to share re your tuning?
Boost? AFR? MAT? Injecting methanol/ethanol? Etc...

Is this a feat that is feasible for "the rest-of-us" ?

I am not sure who you are talking to but I'm going to assume it was me. I have detailed my experiences every time I make major progress, take a look at these two reports, they should answer all your questions except AFR (no WB02):

"New Stock Turbo record, and how it was accomplished"
http://syty.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=30161

"Broke into the 11s on Saturday!"
http://syty.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=31177