Not water cooling a stock turbo

12secondSY

Syty Killer :(
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

berzerker said:
Gm Water Cooled Our Turbo's To Keep The Turbo Failure Ratio's Down From Coking The Oil Around The Turbo Shaft . Hence They Knew People Would'nt Run At Idle Long Enough To Let The Turbo's Spool Down After Driving Hard . Coking Is A Term When The Oil Cooks Onto Metal Like Bbq Sauce Does On Grills . Just I Case Your Wondering
So it would be fine if we just let it run after driving for a few minutes or put on a turbo timer? I really hate anything extra in the engine compartment and coolant lines for the turbo are just one more thing to look ugly and leak.
 

myclone

Donating Member
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

Six-is-Enough said:
Turbo center section sent. He should have by the end of the week.

Jeremy,

Center section arrived via my grumpy ass old postman today so if all goes well I'll saw it in half this weekend at work and post pics shortly thereafter.

BTW, what the hell happened to that thing? Looks like someone tried to use the compressor wheel as a wood chipper :lol: . Did it let go on a bonzi 30psi run or was it driven 39k miles with no bearings? Theres gotta be a good story behind the carnage :tup:
 

JSM

Active member
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

Running 11's on stock turbo, well pushing for 11's had it's toll on it.

New turbo is doing fine at just below the 30psi mark though.
 

Six-is-Enough

Use to do a little Boost
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

myclone said:
Jeremy,

Center section arrived via my grumpy ass old postman today so if all goes well I'll saw it in half this weekend at work and post pics shortly thereafter.

BTW, what the hell happened to that thing? Looks like someone tried to use the compressor wheel as a wood chipper
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. Did it let go on a bonzi 30psi run or was it driven 39k miles with no bearings? Theres gotta be a good story behind the carnage
Ok.gif


I was wide open on the highway (24 psi) when it let go. It must have tried to lock up and the stud and nut holding the compressor wheel on broke. Doing the wood chipper like damage to the wheel.
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Not a pretty sound. Luckily when I immediately lifted, it spit the stud and nut out and imbedded it into the side of my K&N Cone filter.

There was some debris on the turbo side of the intercooler to clean up. But I could not fine much of any thing on the engine side of the intercooler. I think the fins of the intercooler caught most of it. But I changed the oil and went on driving it after the swapping in a new turbo. Everything seems to be fine.
 

myclone

Donating Member
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

Center section has been cut...pics to follow in ~11hrs when quitting time arrives.

Couple neat things to look at, one thing thats kinda odd that Im sure we'll discuss, and suprisingly little crud build up.
 

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

I once had the compressor side of a big diesel turbo let go and go through a freshly rebuilt engine. Replaced the turbo and that engine ran for years after that. After the first trip I gave up worrying.
 

myclone

Donating Member
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

Here ya go ladies and germs...
akz.jpg


Explanation for those that cant figure out the obvious:

The top half of the center section (from now on referred to as the "cs") is oriented in such a way that if you were standing at the passenger side fender looking at the turbo as its mounted on the manifold from the factory this is what you would see. Compressor side is to your right and the turbine side is to your left. In the pic the lower half of the cs is configured in such a way that if it was in two pieces the lower half is simply hinged over so that the top of the cs is actually at the bottom (that make sense?).

:2cents: stuff:

1. Looking at the top half of the cs note how small the oil passages are to the bearings from the oil line fitting but how large the oil passage is that goes off to the right and feeds the seal (and a 2nd front bearing?) on the compressor side. I expected the oil passages going to the bearings to be much bigger.

2. Looking at the top half again note how big the oil passage is above the drain hole..lots of space there and considering the oil drain line size I dont see all that space being filled with oil since it would drain out way faster than the small passages would allow it to flow in IMO.

3. Theres a thin metal "shield" on the compressor side that serves some purpose that I cant figure out. Ive got a hunch that its used to help deflect the oil away from the compressor seal to keep oil from flooding the seal and getting sucked into the intake tract when the compressor side is under vacuum at light/no throttle. Thats just a guess though :dunno: .

4. There isnt nearly as much area for engine coolant to circulate than I thought there would be which in turn makes me question my own opinion that its not a good idea to run a stocker with coolant for longetivities sake.

So let the opinions/thoughts fly just keep in mind that I only sawed the cs in half and took that pic...I didnt invent the turbo.
 

MikeRenz

not stock
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

wow...thats def.not how i envisioned this looking. I too expected more water passage. Maybe cutting on of those halfs into quarters would show the water jackets better since you split the oil feed/drain in half but we can see the wat feed/drain.
 

myclone

Donating Member
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

MikeRenz said:
wow...thats def.not how i envisioned this looking. I too expected more water passage. Maybe cutting on of those halfs into quarters would show the water jackets better since you split the oil feed/drain in half but we can see the wat feed/drain.

I thought about that and if need be I can do quarters next weekend (I love firing up that big ass band saw :tup: ).
 

MikeRenz

not stock
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

might as well :lol: tough to tell in the pics, but do the oil passages seem to be segmented so that the water takes up 50% of the cs? Or is the oil passage seem to take up more like 75-80% like it appears in the pics?
 

myclone

Donating Member
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

MikeRenz said:
Or is the oil passage seem to take up more like 75-80% like it appears in the pics?

Thats what it looks like to me holding the cs in my hands. It appears that the water comes into the coolant port, just curculates around the turbine bearing, and then right back out the other coolant fitting. It doesnt appear that the coolant circulates anywhere near the compressor side and the closest it even gets is where it enters/leaves the cs.

I'll cut the cs through the water in/out ports next weekend and post up a pic for all to see :tup: .
 

canadian

sy in progress
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

I would think that the oil outlet side is so much larger because the oil is whipped up into a froth. If the volume was smaller, there wouldn't be enough room for expansion and the oil would revert back up to the inlet side. Just my thoughts, I'm not turbo guru either.
 

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

Oil comes in at 60+ psi leaves at -0- = bigger passage required. Common with every turbo I've ever seen. I would guess that the water does little other than keep the oil from absorbing allot of heat. The whole thing runs rather hot anyway so I would wonder. I would really like to talk to an engineer about their reasoning.
 

ashman

------
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

request for posterity.....put your cam in "Macro" and take a close up pic of one half and post it somewhere (bucket) in full resolution. would be a cool desktop background.
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tyndago

New member
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

I have seen some stuff on water cooling the center section and the difference in heat.

The Mitsubishis are used in a cooled and non-cooled form in different cars. I think if they have the provision for it, cool it. If not dont. You could reinvent the wheel everytime you do something, but not a lot of reason to.

I hate turbo timers, so don't even mention them.

http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/corvette/turbo/turbo.htm

"Whilst turbochargers began to be applied to passenger cars in the late 1970's in response to the energy crisis, the first generation passenger car turbochargers were derived directly from commercial diesel engines. Engine oil was used to provide both lubrication and cooling and whilst this was an effective compromise between cost, durability and performance, in high engine performance applications durability suffered through fouling of the turbocharger bearings through high turbine and bearing temperatures.

By encasing the turbocharger bearings in intricate water passages, engine coolant is used to significantly reduce turbocharger bearing temperatures in order to eliminate the coking and lacquering issues that fouled old fashioned turbocharger bearings. Non water cooled turbochargers have no place in a high performance gasoline engine application and should be avoided at all costs.



The graph above shows the turbocharger bearing temperature leading up to engine shutdown and for 20 minutes following shutdown. The temperature is displayed relative to the coking threshold of high quality mineral based oil.

As is clearly evident, the old fashioned non water cooled turbocharger operates above the coking threshold when under high load and experiences a very high temperature increase through heat soak immediately after engine shutdown. The APS water cooled turbocharger on the other hand remains cooler than the coking threshold at all times and the bearing temperature increase through heat soak immediately after shutdown is reduced drastically. "
 

myclone

Donating Member
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

Houston......ummmm....we have a problem.

As I was leaving for work today I started looking for the cs to take with me and couldnt locate it so I asked Mrs myclone if she'd seen it and come to find out she thought it was trash (it was wrapped up in a plastic shopping bag) and laying next to the trash can so she pitched it in the trash. Well, I didnt know this so day before yesterday when I hauled the trash off unbeknownst to me I hauled the turbo to the dump.

Anyone got another junk stock center section they wanna donate? :oops: :oops: :oops:
 

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

myclone said:
Houston......ummmm....we have a problem.

As I was leaving for work today I started looking for the cs to take with me and couldnt locate it so I asked Mrs myclone if she'd seen it and come to find out she thought it was trash (it was wrapped up in a plastic shopping bag) and laying next to the trash can so she pitched it in the trash. Well, I didnt know this so day before yesterday when I hauled the trash off unbeknownst to me I hauled the turbo to the dump.

Anyone got another junk stock center section they wanna donate? :oops: :oops: :oops:

Now THAT'S funny.... I'll bet someone can help though. They always do.:tup:
 

myclone

Donating Member
Re: Not water cooling a stock turbo

Don W. said:
Now THAT'S funny.... I'll bet someone can help though. They always do.:tup:

I thought it was funny but she didnt...she thought it was a good/functional turbo for me and she thought I'd be ticked off. Once I explained it was a junk turbo and being used for educational purposes she at least quit sobbing. I felt kinda bad since she got so upset thinking that she'd trashed some high dollar turbo that was going on my truck but I couldnt help but laugh a little (that did NOT help....note to self: do NOT laugh when wife cries).

Anyways, its all good now but needless to say I need another cs to sacrifice to the band saw Gods so if anyone wants to send me one for the educational purposes of seeing whats inside it just lemme know.
 
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