Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

[alwayscode390]

Hey Guys, I was going to go all out and do the 412/vortec swap ... but was turned off at the HUGE price for the work. Last weekend my propshaft started to make the truck shake, so I rethought my current build (so I can get it in the shop for more than just the propshaft swap). Will all this stuff work together? I am hoping for close to 400hp. Let me know if I am missing something , thanks a TON :

Here is what I HAVE SO FAR (not installed though):

Walbro 255lph fuel pump
AFPR (cheap black one from RPM)
Ultimate (stock) chip (will this eliminate the need for a tune?) 3 bar MAP
Ext. Wastegate by Turbonetics
Blow Off Valve by Vortec
Meth Kit by Spearco
Pte63 Turbo with the 3 to 4 adapter
Full 3" exhaust
TA Girdle for the rear differential
Cold Air Intake

Here is what I PLAN TO BUY TO COMPLETE IT and get her in the shop ASAP :

Gilbert Prop
9-11 converter ( anything else to beef up the tranny?) 2800 or 3000?
ATR 3" downpipe
Air to Air intercooler ( do you recommend the use of electric fans? )



Will the stock injectors be fine since boost pressure wont be much more than stock? Is the stock throttle body big enough? The truck has 67,000 miles on it, and I plan on getting the cam/heads/rebuild done before 100,000. Thanks again for the time and opinions ---

 

[James Thomas]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

I could be wrong but I think your going to have a hard if not impossible time riuning a PTE63 with stock injectors even at lower boost. It's not so much the boost alone but the volume of air with the bigger turbo / intake and the free flowing 3" ex. That also means your stock tune is out the window also. Most of your other goodies look ok though. I'm sure some of the other fellas will chime in here also but when I look at the flow tables, power dynamic etc. It looks like much of anything larger than a 20G needs more fuel for our trucks. Btw alarger turbo or cam is nothing but a waste and tuining problems on our stock heads. Just my :2cents: .

_________________
James

 

[alwayscode390]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

Damn....thanks for the heads up ... looks like I may have to save up that extra $3k for the cam and heads after all?! Oh well, I guess I was rushing. If I am going to do it, I guess I should DO IT RIGHT ---

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

A 63 is probably a bit much for the stock heads/cam. You can run one, but you would probably have a better driver with a 44-60-51-52 sized turbo. I am not going to go all out endorse using stock injectors but their have been sucessful Sy in the high 11's w/stock injectors.

 

[gjp]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

I agree with the last two posts. Thats a big turbo for a stock engine. Rpm's 60-1 or a stage 2 or 3 turbo should work out better for you. Save a few $$ and should with the right mods give you over 400hp. You have a good list of stuff but if the trans is stock you will be ushing the limmits of it.
TB is fine. when it develops a shaft leak. (all TB usualy do) I would then send it out to have a bearing put in and opened up to 52mm. Most of that stuff is bolt on. You sshould have no problems doing the work yourself.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

Hey Guys, I was going to go all out and do the 412/vortec swap ... but was turned off at the HUGE price for the work. Last weekend my propshaft started to make the truck shake, so I rethought my current build (so I can get it in the shop for more than just the propshaft swap). Will all this stuff work together? I am hoping for close to 400hp. Let me know if I am missing something , thanks a TON :

Here is what I HAVE SO FAR (not installed though):

Walbro 255lph fuel pump
AFPR (cheap black one from RPM)
Ultimate (stock) chip (will this eliminate the need for a tune?) 3 bar MAP

Nope, you'll still need it tuned.

Ext. Wastegate by Turbonetics
Blow Off Valve by Vortec
Meth Kit by Spearco
Pte63 Turbo with the 3 to 4 adapter
Full 3" exhaust
TA Girdle for the rear differential
Cold Air Intake

Here is what I PLAN TO BUY TO COMPLETE IT and get her in the shop ASAP :

Gilbert Prop
9-11 converter ( anything else to beef up the tranny?) 2800 or 3000?
ATR 3" downpipe
Air to Air intercooler ( do you recommend the use of electric fans? )



Will the stock injectors be fine since boost pressure wont be much more than stock?

That turbo isn't really meant to run at a lower boost pressure... it won't perform a whole lot better than the stock turbo with your build. Get it up to 22-25 psi, and it's another story.

The alky kit that you have will help, but the stock injectors are marginal at 12.0 in the 1/4.
You can get them to go faster, but you'll end up breaking parts eventually.

You should get larger injectors... I don't recommend 50#s to people anymore.
There will be cals available for the mototron 65s soon.

Get the 3k stall with that turbo.

Is the stock throttle body big enough?

This would be the least of your worries... the stock TB will go into the 10s.

The truck has 67,000 miles on it, and I plan on getting the cam/heads/rebuild done before 100,000. Thanks again for the time and opinions ---

I'll break from the pack in the notion that that turbo won't be ok with the stock heads/cam.
It's not ideal, but it doesn't mean you can't hit your goal of 400 hp.

The big thing to have, will be to stabilize your build and get it tuned properly for that build. You'll likely have to take it to someone to get it tuned properly. (Or have them come to you, if you can make that happen)

If someone sells you a "tune" for your truck that didn't involve a wide-band 02 sensor and a whole lotta data logs, you didn't really get a good tune. If they send you one chip and tell you it's for your build, they lied to you.

Just by way of comparison, I made ~ 400 hp with the stock components and a 20g turbo, and others have done similar things. It really doesn't take a giant turbo to make good power.

 

[alwayscode390]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

Awesome, thanks guys. I guess I will just save up and get it done the way I originally planned. I learned ALOT from your posts and really appreciate it ---

*Would a 3" cutout before the cat help improve things or just make everything LOUD?!

THANKS AGAIN ---

 

[Flyin Ryan]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

Tuning it seems is everything with these trucks.. you can throw all the money at it you want with bolt ons here and there but if you don't tune for these things you could actually end up going slower which im sure your aware of.

*Would a 3" cutout before the cat help improve things or just make everything LOUD?!

I'd say you've already got the exhaust flow covered via 3" exhuast and ext wastegate.. but the cut out will help you enjoy the spool noise more and improve spool up slightly

 

[alwayscode390]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

Yeah, that is pretty sweet sounding too!!!

I guess the reason I am stubbing my toes on the heads/intake thing, is I live in an apt and cant really have an inoperable vehicle sitting there while I send the stuff out to a SYCLONE mechanic ( does anyone know a good shop in St Louis that can do the porting/vortec heads and intake work?! ) ---

 

[NOJIMMY]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

Hey Guys, I was going to go all out and do the 412/vortec swap ... but was turned off at the HUGE price for the work. Last weekend my propshaft started to make the truck shake, so I rethought my current build (so I can get it in the shop for more than just the propshaft swap). Will all this stuff work together? I am hoping for close to 400hp. Let me know if I am missing something , thanks a TON :

Here is what I HAVE SO FAR (not installed though):

Walbro 255lph fuel pump
AFPR (cheap black one from RPM)
Ultimate (stock) chip (will this eliminate the need for a tune?) 3 bar MAP
Ext. Wastegate by Turbonetics
Blow Off Valve by Vortec
Meth Kit by Spearco
Pte63 Turbo with the 3 to 4 adapter
Full 3" exhaust
TA Girdle for the rear differential
Cold Air Intake

Here is what I PLAN TO BUY TO COMPLETE IT and get her in the shop ASAP :

Gilbert Prop
9-11 converter ( anything else to beef up the tranny?) 2800 or 3000?
ATR 3" downpipe
Air to Air intercooler ( do you recommend the use of electric fans? )



Will the stock injectors be fine since boost pressure wont be much more than stock? Is the stock throttle body big enough? The truck has 67,000 miles on it, and I plan on getting the cam/heads/rebuild done before 100,000. Thanks again for the time and opinions

---

STOP! I have to tell you that this thread hurts my eyes a bit....(not that your wrong, but...)
1. WHY 400hp? (is this important? at the flywheel or wheels? at the expense of torque? at what rpm?)
2. WHAT are you using the vehicle for? (race only? street/track use? daily driver? autocrossing?)
3. AREN'T you tuning it now, before modding? (what, no base measurements? is everything working now?)
4. ARE you paying for someone to add these mods? (do you have an expert available? is money an issue?)

IF you made to this point (without getting angry at my questions) I must say...
1. Without some careful tuning, your well on your way to blowing up either your engine or tranny.
2. Your goal of 400 hp is obtainable, but reliabilty, consistency, dependability is questionable.
3. It appears that you have no "stages" of modding (with defined goals) other than 400 hp.

AND what I would say about your list is...
1. Fuel pump/AFPR and fuel Filter is very important in detonation prevention
2. Utimate chip/3-bar is very good upgrade to stock ecm (allowing mulitiple street/strip settings)
3. Meth kit (assuming timing, ignition good) could be used with tranny cooler/tranny additives & good engine oil
4. Cold Air Intake is okay (assuming k&N) but a 160 degree thermostat can help too.
5. Wastegate/BOV (well boost control is good/important, but with stock internals you never stated max psi desired).
6. 3" Exhaust (if your running cat delete/no muffler, #5 is important). If cat is plugged, 3" wont matter.
7. TA Girdle (again a cheap strength mod, but rear ends arent weak point. Hoovers ran stock rear end for years).
8 Gilbert Prop (okay beefier, but drive shaft loops are good insurance as well).
9. 9-11 converter (stall speed is key component with converter change. Not alot of engine data given to comment).
10. ATR Downpipe (no comment).
11. A2A - (a good upgrade to stock intercooler system - pump, ic lines, redline solution, spal fans, blade of death)
can be a lot cheaper. If your at track, you can ice down the IC. Im not sure why you think
400hp needs an a2a.

ITEMS Not mentioned are ...
1. tires/wheels (condition, tread, stickness/traction limitation, size/gearing interaction)
2. Alignment/tracking (front end alignment, ball joints, suspension upgrades, sway bar, shocks, etc)
3. Brakes (s10 wheel cylinders, disk/drums, hydroboost, etc)
4. Weight reduction (battery relocation, tailgate/cover, passenger seat,etc)
5. And condition of your battery/alternator (good voltages); spark plug choice/gap; wires/cap/coil condition;
gauges for monitoring; and whether safety is important (upgrade seat belts; c-clip eliminator; solid motor mounts/torque strap, etc).


Call me old fashion, a fuddy-duddy, or whatever, but I'm a bit surprise no one
has discussed the above in much detail choosing to jump right into turbo sizing.
Since these vehicles when tuned make 300hp anyway, 400 isn't a huge "jump".

-sorry if I come across a bit strong,
Larry

 

[blk00z28]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

Dude, you might wanna look into just a basic stock set of vortec's from RPM. I believe they (bare heads..) are only like $99 each. Why do you think so many guys are going stock unported or polished vortec's lately? Me being one of them.

Add a cam, and the lower intake (already done for you) and you can have a head/cam package for around $800 if not less if you know how to shop around.

 

[blk00z28]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

You should get larger injectors... I don't recommend 50#s to people anymore.
There will be cals available for the mototron 65s soon.

What hp rating (or ET for those who think in ET terms lol.) are those 65's good for Dig?

 

[James Thomas]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

The key thing here is A. Your plans for the future (one we get what we want "400 hp", we always want more!). and B. Solid tuning components and tuning. If you really want 400 hp and no more (ever in the future) and are willing to take the time to tune it you can save money by porting your stockers and doing a 20g upgrade. Bottom line..... for any build it's all in the tune brotha!

________________
James

 

[turbodig]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

What hp rating (or ET for those who think in ET terms lol.) are those 65's good for Dig?

Both are kinda variable, you'll see numbers all over the place. They'll support at *least* 700 HP, and even better than that at high fuel pressures (although you better have a really good pump to do that).

Deep into the 10s, conservatively speaking.


Expanding on the pump thing further...

At about 40 psi pressure, the mototrons flow around 60#/hr

6 * 60#/hr = 360#/hr.

360# / 6.35 #/gal = 56.7 gal/hr.

At 26 psi boost, you'll have 66 psi of fuel pressure at the pump.

A High pressure walbro at 13.5 volts (which doesn't happen very often, it's closer to 12) flows 58 gal/hour at that pressure. Just barely makes it.

At 12 volts, it's only 48 gal/hr. Not enough.

So, you need, at the least, a good high pressure 255l/hr walbro, running at a full 13.5v.
This pretty much mandates a good wiring harness to the pump.

 

[blk00z28]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

Thanks Dig

 

[alwayscode390]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

WOW, these things are really touchy. I guess my first upgrade should be a cheap laptop to start datamastering it. My laptop now wont work with the port for some reason. So with the datamaster program I can actually TUNE and MONITOR my truck right....I dont need anything extra to reflash the input into the ecm on the truck?! ---

I want to do the vortec swap, but to get them ported , welded, tapped, matched, ect....its $2700 from RPM and I live in an apt....so I cant just take off the heads and leave it , they yell at me for changing my oil, hehe.

Ok, wow, time to start thinking again ---


I guess I will just put my money into finishing my 10 second z28. Its alot easier for me to figure out the mods....when I have free time to learn , I will get back into the Sy I guess ---

 

[Mtn Z]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

Yeah that's what I'm doing. My Camaro will eventually be powerful enough to rotate the Earth backwards. I just want my Sy to be fun and quick enough to beat 90% of the stuff I run into. I'm eventually gonna throw some stock Vortecs on it and a medium size turbo. When the motor gives, I'll build it. I'd still go for stock Vortecs though if I were you. Supposedly worth around 20hp plus a lot better combustion chamber for anti detonation. Should be around $500 assembled from what I've been told.

 

[berzerker]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

mnt z is correct . not to step on any vendors toes here . but any good engine machine shop can do the intake mods and set up for the vortec heads for under a few hundred dollars easy .

 

[blk00z28]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

I could have swore up and down that the lower intake was cheaper then $450 a few months back, I dont know why. But for some reason I remember it being only.. $250. $450 was without a core.. :dunno: I could be wrong.

 

[alwayscode390]

Re: Change of Plans....how does this setup sound?! ---

mnt z is correct . not to step on any vendors toes here . but any good engine machine shop can do the intake mods and set up for the vortec heads for under a few hundred dollars easy .

Ok, well that is what I was hoping to hear, haha!!!

I almost decided to go with the L35's. What is the hp difference from a set of ported l35's to ported vortecs .... its like 45cfm flow?! I like the fact they just bolt up so I can do the swap myself. The exhaust manifolds bolt right up to the l35's right? I could probably get the low 12's, high 11's out of that setup with the pte63 turbo I have, a 412, and those other mods ---

Is there a big deal between the 412 and 415 cams ... or should I get the one I can score the cheapest, the specs look pretty close!?

Thanks everyone ---